First let me say that I still to this day think making money online is the coolest profession in the world.
I owe my life to this biz and I’ll never stop believing in it, loving it, and sharing it with others.
That said, at the same time I have days where I am utterly bamboozled trying to comprehend how this industry came to be so twisted, screwed up, and generally overrun by weirdos…
Here’s why, on those particular days, I hate this game we’re in so much.
1. I hate the way that the powers that be in this industry are hell bent on convincing the lowly newbie that there is SO much information that they need to know in order to be successful.
Have you seen the number of blogs that exist showing you how to make money online? The number of info products? It’s ridiculous!
Even if you wanted to, you couldn’t keep up to date with even a small percentage of the new information that goes back and forth through blogs, forums, social networks and your email inbox on even ONE ELEMENT of online marketing – again, it’s ridiculous!
And because we’re in the “information product” business, these people have to keep making up new information and doing their best to convince you that it’s information you really NEED.
And so this “information hungry” culture has been created. Don’t get me wrong, information is power WHEN ACTED UPON. Trouble is there’s so much information, you end up spending all your time taking it in and NO time acting on it – am I right??
2. I hate the notion of “gurus” – you know why? Because EVERYONE’s a guru!
Everyone’s a guru to someone.
When you start a martial arts class, you know nothing. You see some yellow or orange belts fighting and you think they look incredible – you can’t believe how skillful they are and you want to be like them.
But when you reach yellow or orange belt, the other people in your belt don’t seem skillful at all, they’re just like you. However when you take a look at the purple and brown belts, they look MEAN. They’ve clearly got more skill than you.
And so it goes. There’s always someone who’s better than you – who knows more than you.
But in our industry, anyone who knows more than you can call themselves a guru! There’s no notion of levels of knowledge and skill – marketing practices make it such that if someone calls themselves a guru they can sell more product so BOOM – the mass guru culture is created.
A guru was traditionally ONE PERSON in a village who’s skills were revered by EVERYONE else in the land, even amongst the others who were considered to have skill.
Now guru’s are a dime a dozen.
3. I hate the amount of BS.
You hear it in sales letters so much that you don’t even think about it anymore. Heard this lately:
“There’s so much BS out there on the internet that you don’t know what to believe anymore”
That’s true! You nod your head in agreement, unaware that you’re just about to add another wad full of it into the foul smelling shit pile on your desktop without even realizing it.
This week for curiosity I started buying a lot of other marketers products – purely to see what they were like.
Not one impressed me in the slightest – all of about 10 were completely underwhelming – I realized how it feels for your average newbie.
Because the skill we’re all trying to learn is marketing, we’re constantly being marketed to – and it’s even worse because we get TOLD that we’re getting marketed to.
We get told how to write sales copy so we know that what we’re reading has been designed to evoke our emotions and make us truly believe that this product will make all our dreams come true – but we still fall for it time and again.
Not only that, but in this industry we’ve created, we’ve made it impossible for the people we entrust to provide us with information, to tell us the truth!
We don’t want to hear that something is going to be hard work – you never see that in a sales letter.
We don’t want to hear that something is going to require an investment of money – you rarely see that in a sales letter.
We don’t hear that something is going to take time, be wrought with hiccups, take many failures and then if you persist through all that, be a success – you definitely don’t see that in sales letters.
And so we’ve created this culture of guru’s who are forced to bend the truth in whatever way they can to make us respond – and we wonder why the products we buy suck… why the information we get doesn’t work like they say it will… and why we spend months going round in circles and not making a dime of the money that was promised to us…
Are you depressed enough yet?
How does this post help you?
Well… It doesn’t – but I figure it can’t help you much LESS than the other 9 million posts that got made today across the other 543 000 online marketing blogs…
At least this might be the only one completely devoid of truth bending?
So tell me… what do you hate about the make money online industry?
At least we can hate together, share our experiences, air our grievances then get back to WORK!
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Hi
I made a post yesterday about the same thing over at ckirkland.com. check it out because I agree with you 100%.
Thanks
Charles Kirkland
Lets shoot some hype monkeys
Do you feel better now? hehehehehe
Just sounds like real life in any business except on the web everything can happen fast – very fast…especially failure.
You may be reading too much Andrew.
I hate that trying to “learn it all” makes me feel so stinking stupid. “WHY cant I get it and follow through?” I hate that the wealth of information coming from all directions makes me want to stay in bed.
Totally agree – great post!
You got it Andrew.
The big problem is that very few treat internet marketing as a business. And businesses take work, dedication, some capital and many sacrifices. It seems that most of us still want a quick fix (often that includes me) that will make it all painless.
It’s time we grew up and just got to work. Most of us have way more knowledge than we’ll ever use. So we need to stop falling for all the marketing hype that promises a short-cut and apply what we already know. When that runs out, then we can search for more.
It would be nice to see more marketers treating their customers as business owners and not get-rich-quick seekers.
Andrew,
Thanks for that. Another thing that the “gurus” don’t tell you is that there are some niches that if you try the offers with timers on them and other weird IM stuff then that particular niche is going to think that you are from Mars and won’t respond.
I know this from experience. All the “controlling” and “compelling” and “hypnotizing” stuff gets old, too.
Then there’s the cynicism – here’s pretty much a direct quote from a teleseminar some years ago with a guy (who is now) today’s top flavor of “guru”, speaking about his list(s):
“I don’t care if they want to buy cat sh*t sandwiches, if that’s what they want to buy, I’ll sell it to them”.”
That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it?
I hate disasters due to exploiting newbies, especially by hype & fraud. Other wise best profession to be in.
Good Post
Thanks for reminding
Sreenivasa
Andrew,
I have joined all the major player’s lists including yours and I have to say I am tired of being sold to. I put out a free report that showed how I made some money online flipping a blog for profit. Some 600 or so people downloaded the report. I asked the people who downloaded the report if they found it useful and if they acted upon the information in it. I was getting no money at all from this. I got no response. I then said that I would pay the person with the best feedback $50 straight to their PayPal account. Four people responded. None took action. Blog flipping required some work, nobody wanted to do it out of 600 people. I gave away $50 and still couldn’t get a rise out of them. Sad really, and no, I won’t post the link here because that wasn’t the purpose of my post.
TomG.
The problem is human nature, and the willingness of people to lie and cheat to take advantage of it. Internet marketers appeal to people desperate to make money online.
Inexperienced people believe there may be something to the claims that there are magical formulas, techniques, shortcuts, and get-rich quick schemes that really work. Successful internet marketers exploit these irrational beliefs and are therefore being dishonest almost by definition – because they know their own claims are distorted half-truths at best.
Even those of us who have been around the block two or three times are tempted to believe that such schemes and shortcuts might actually exist. We say to ourselves “I know this is a pitch, but it might just work.” But we also know it does not work because we have already tried it before.
The only reasonable defense against this kind of BS attack is to reject it. Do not listen. Do not read any sales pitch over a few paragraphs long. Do not buy anything offered in a “Launch”. Leave any page that uses any of the standard sales manipulation techniques advocated by any of the gurus.
Find someone you can trust and get his or her advice – at least until they start to use guru techniques on you.
Then say goodbye.
Ego.
I hate all the people that insist they’re right, simply because they CAN’T be wrong. Close your mouth, open your ears, separate the $$$ from the BS and get to work.
Why does everyone wants to be a celebrity?
Hi Andrew,
I would say it’s very hard for newbies to sort out the good stuff from the bad…and there is so much bad!
I’m in a ‘hate’ mood myself today because I recently decided to go for it and buy into a newly launched PPC programme. After making my decision, I had to make 3 further decisions before getting access. GRRRR!!The bit I accessed immediately after buying had definately not been proof read – there were instructions to the admin stuff to alter things. Maybe they could have spent more time making sure the course was actually finished, instead of all the time spent promoting it! When I try and log in now, I’m met with ‘You do not access to this page’ (Yes, that’s what it says.) That includes the support page……so now I have to phone them and try and get it sorted out. I’m sure these guys are very good at what they do….but they really need to get a bit more quality into it.
The other thing I really dislike is – and this won’t be popular – scraped articles etc, people passing themselves off as ‘experts’. If I want any medical or financial information, I make damn sure I’m not on an affiliate’s site – just in case. (Mark Twain once said something like ‘Don’t read medical books – you could die of a misprint’ !!)
Right – got that off my chest . Sorry – your email arrived just at the wrong time – now I’m off to get a stiff drink and make a phone call!
It’s very good to hear some plain speaking…not enough of it about.
All the best,
Sue
Hi Andrew,
I agree with you about the total amount of B.S. being peddled online. It does seem to be the nature of the “game” though because you see it everywhere – a total novice trying to sell you a product that you know is an affiliate package they just got from some big time guru.. how do you know .. usually because you get the same pitch from the original guru as well … I belive it is because the guru’s tell people to just get out there and sell and everyone thinks that they can sell Internet Products without really understanding the product they are selling or how they are representing themselves as someone who “knows” … when really they don’t! Enough ranting , I have to get back to work.
Harry
Matthew,
YES I forgot to bring that one up actually:
“I don’t care if they want to buy cat sh*t sandwiches, if that’s what they want to buy, I’ll sell it to them”
That’s the thing… and it means that even if I do have the formula for you to achieve complete success, if I put it up for sale… you won’t buy it!
Because you’ve been conditioned to think that something else is what you actually want! Something that’s easier, faster and less stressful.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it makes ur blood boil!
I’m with you on many of these things. I own 1300 domains and thought I’d be selling them for thousands of dollars. Now I’m down to selling them on http://www.afterhoursdomains.com for less than $100. Well it’s the way it goes.
I hate that there are so many people that are in it for themselves. Would be much better if people would focus on how to help other people.
The biggest problem is finding an unbiased review of any information, recommendation or program. Even if you could find something like that, you would not know if it was real or not.
Second to that is the problem with paying a good chunk of change for an information product only to find out that it is really just a big advertisement for a piece of software or some more expensive information product.
I could go on…… :’)
My biggest issue right now is the lack of new information-people are just recycling the same lessons, but packaging them like they are finally giving you the big secrets.
I agree, Frank Garon and I are starting a radio show Andrew to address this and give people resources, perhaps you would like to be on it.
Hi Andrew
The problem is every information we get online to improve our internet business being like e-books, and software are coming form text book that you can get from your local book store. I have to say most of it are copy and paste.
Why people think they need to follow those things are simple they are just to lazy to source out. Its because of that factor that why you see a lot of products don’t really supply the information really needed to get started. Example of what are the common things are, A website/blog/lead capture page/ etc etc, followed by email list/ autoresponder, then sales page/reviews, and lastly you get your seo related stuff. Those are the common points to every business rinse and repeat.
Why a lot of people hate it? As what Doug said in his comment ” t would be nice to see more marketers treating their customers as business owners and not get-rich-quick seekers.” that i have to say is the key point to everything
Regards
Admin for moneymakerblogger.com
My #1 gripe (and in fact if I could solve this one, I wouldn’t care about any of my others, and would become a rich man in the process) is that 80% of your time is wasted. No matter what you want to learn, 80% of your time investment is wasted. I think it’s a truism from cave man days. It’s the old joke “80% of our efforts on (fill in the blank) are wasted. Now if we could just figure out which 80%”. Worked as a mortgage broker several years ago. Each broker had to highlight, fold, seal 250 of our one page direct mail letter every day. 1,250 letters a week. Each broker would get about 10-12 calls from those 1,250 letters – 0.0096 response rate. When I suggested the idea of a “control piece” and testing, just a cold stare from the owner (guess who authored the letter? He actually told me it could not be improved and truly believed that). But that aside. How I wished I could magically stuff just those 10-12 letters and call it a week. But those efforts also made me a very handsome living till I got out of the biz. Pareto be damned!
Hi Andrew,
Boy did your email come at the right time. I was backing up zillions of reports wondering what the heck I got all this stuff for. Most of this crap was an intro. to buy something bigger and, of course, more expensive. For the non-guru types starting out the b.s. is overwhelming. What I’ve decide to do was unsubcribe to all of the crap and figure out who I miss the most and follow that person to the ends of the earth. Hopefully someone can help the little guy see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Kudos to you Andrew! This sort of thing has been happening for a very long time and I preach pretty much the same thing on my 4 blogs.
Its never as it easy they make it sound, nor is it as difficult, if one gives themselves the required time to understand the steps and take action and keep taking action.
On the guru front, its chuck full of self appointed gurus who spew nothing but regurgitated has been information.
I have been studying this now for 8 years and back when I got started there were less than a handful of gurus and today I believe there is maybe 10 to 12 that I really consider the cutting edge folks in this industry. “personal opinion”
It’s good to see someone get pissed off and speak what is so often on my mind already. I believe people should be above board, and I don’t see that as much as we should these days.
Thanks for the post and to your continued successes.
I’m in my fifth year of trying to market online. My sprinkler repair websites are are #1 on Google. I spent 6 grand having an sprinkler repair DVD professionally produced because you’ve “gotta have your own info product” according to the “guru’s”. It’s taken me two years to get my money back. I’ve now resorted to pitching anything I can on my index page like a carnival barker. Money does occasionally trickle in. It’s frustrating. Just because you go through all the hard work to be #1 on Google doesn’t mean jack sh**, unless your #1 for Viagra or plasma TV’s. It’s disheartening to say the least. My site for “valve locators” is #1 and at least that pays me something. Retire from digging up and repairing sprinkler heads? Not in the foreseeable future.
The reason that “information” has to be offered so frequently is because the “gurus” have to keep filling their coffers. You’ve seen them; the second they get a few bucks they rush off and buy expensive houses, cars, boats, you name it. Once the money has been spent, they come back to the suckers to keep financing their lifestyles.
Twice, this past year, I have seen programs re-cycled with new web pages, new URLs but exactly the same programs.! Anything to keep you buying.
There are some excellent instructors and these are the people who try to make sure that you succeed – not just take your money. It is very difficult, with all the B.S. out there to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Some people bring it on themselves. I watched a video of Frank Kern where he said that its very difficult to get “newbies” to actually do anything. He also mentioned a program where the purchasers were asked, INSIDE the product to register at the website. I think the figure was 25% who actually complied the rest didn’t even open the book.
The only suggestion that I can make is to look for the people who tell you straight out that it’s going to be tough and that you will have to stick with it and work REALLY hard to succeed. As for the rest, keep you money in your wallet and work diligently until you too can afford all these luxury items.
Hi Andrew, I put this post in our FP forum but I’ll add it here just in case any of your readers have not joined Firepow…yet!
Here is my 2 cents worth….
Where I draw the line on “Ethical Marketing” is when the target is the down and out, just got laid off, desperate newbie, single parent that is needing a source of income in a hurry. And what about the “Baby Boomers” who finally broke down and got their first computer with the hope of supplementing their meager retirement pay?…
This to me is the Biggest Market that the “Unethical Types” seek out to get their dollars from.
We have all seen the ad’s…Get Rich Today!, I will show you how to have 5,000 dollars in the bank, in 30 days or less I can go on and on but I think you all know where I’m heading… And That Was Just The Head Line then they start to show all the pictures of their fancy ass house, cars, planes and pic’s of their last vacation/holiday, not to mention the so called “proof” of their income shown by a screen shot on the sales page (mmmm can any one spell “photo shop”?)
Now I ask you… if you were one of the targeted individuals I mentioned above, wouldn’t you jump on one of the sales pages and while you are reading it start to picture how great your life will be after you buy into their program??
Then after they pay for it, you start wondering what the heck is a html, mysql, domain name, web hosting, auto responder and all the rest of the stuff you need to know or purchase to…make the program work!
So now the poor Newbie, decides that after spending three months trying to get the “Step by Step” program in operation, he decides it’s beyond his comprehension and asks for a refund…but “Wait” the guarantee was only for 60 days and he spent 90 days just trying to figure out how he was going to make a bunch of money in only 30days….”Guaranteed” so what is the end result? No Refund!
So now back to Ethical Marketing…is the above scenario ethical?
In my humble opinion…given the “targeted market” Hell No! (sorry I flared) but to shed some light on why I feel this way is: I was in the “Targeted Market” and I know how easy it is to start dreaming of, Riches In Days.
I am now older and wiser and can honesty say, if it wasn’t for this and maybe one or two other forums….I would have given up on ever trying an “online career”.
Okay I’m Sorry…that was at least 4 cents worth…
I reckon it hit a nerve….
Emails – hate the fact that you have to sign up for every-bloody-thing and then you spend the first 6 hours of each day sifting through the 391 emails that stacked up overnight.
One particular guru sends the identical email to all his lists – if you go to the toilet in his office you have to sign up!.
Consequently, I don’t get one email from him – I get 14, AT LEAST twice a day.
Finally, what can I do with this 160 gigs of crap I’ve been conned into downloading over the years.
There is good stuff there – somewhere! LOL
The Beachcomber
Andrew,
Thank you for venting exactly how I feel. I have purchased numerous programs in the past any got burned just as many times.
The promises made were never met.
If you need assistance, please contact support. hahaha.
Support would reply “Follow the instructions provided” Well, if I understood the instructions, I would not have requested assistance. How stupid are these support persons.
People are so turned off by all the promises that they don’t even believe an e-mail offering a 10-Part free e-course regarding mortgage information.
I have a web site stating my view regarding the 2 major reasons for the condition for the mortgage industry today. (This site has been up for months and lately the facts came out that the reasons are almost exactly the same as I stated) In addition, I offered a free 10-part free e-course advising how to prepare to apply for a mortgage and the things to look out for so not to be taken in by GREEDY, blood-sucking mortgage companies.
There was no sales pitch on this web site at all. It was just good solid information to help people. My experience in the field was 18 years of working for mortgage companies that obeyed the rules and regulations and did not push the applicants into programs that they could not afford. Surprise, not one person requested the e-course.
People are suspicious because of what has happened on the internet with false promises, deceit, and in my opinion, underhanded theft by false promises.
Sorry to rant, but your post just made me also want to vent.
Thank you for the opportunity.
RobertaGee
Maybe it’s me but I love everything about this business. The internet is still in it’s wild west stage and I’ve always loved westerns.
What I hate most about the make money online business is the extremes that so many will go through to make a sale.
As we here know, most are making nowhere near the amount of money they say they’re making. For example, a certain guru claim to be making @30,000 a month, yet a month or so later, they having a sale to raise money to save their home because they can’t meet their $1,500 mortgage note.
Another thing I hate about this field is that most are promoting or try to sell something they know nothing about. That equates to a blind man trying to sell you contact lenses.
Oh, and don’t get me started on the lies that are told. For instance, a certain guru just created a new money making product that has never been released, or sold before. So how can they have a page full of testimonies from so called buyers and users that have been using this fantastic money making product for 4 month, and are now making a 7 figure with it?
How many of those clickbank and paypal screen shots you see of the amount of money supposingly being made? We all know Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, and so many others are making money, but do you ever see them throwing up screen shots showing how much they making? Are they even trying to convince anyone to buy their money making secrets?
Do the folks that we know that are actually making the big money trying to seel you their secrets for $47… and add in bonuses supposingly worth over $11,000? Can’t the product stand on it’s own merits? This would be like a car dealer giving you 2 mercedes, 3 lexus, and a porsche if you bought a Ford Focus.
Come on, let’s get real. Another thing that gets under my skin is the outrageous prices asked for products. Would anyone actually walk into a book store and pay $97 for a 15 page manual? I don’t think so. So how can you justify the price difference that would be the asking price for a book from the store and a diigital product?
I bet most people that have paid astronomical prices like hundreds to thousands of dollars for the next best money maker have yet to earn enough to buy a tank of gas.
Oh, and one other thing. How can you run out of copies of a digital product? We’ve seen the offers that say after these xx remaining copies are sold, they’re gone forever. Gone where?
Okay, I’m getting off my soap box now because the blood vessels are about to pop in my head. Sure, I could go on and on, but i think my points are well taken.
I must admit that I too have bought into the hype in the past, and I’ve also been part of it. However, I’ve since jumped ship from the hype liner and swam back to the shores of reality and practicality.
Anyone care to follow?
Sorry, but I have to chime in once again and agree with another comment posted here and say that in spite of all the BS and crap in the make money field, I still love it, and that good money can be made in honesty without the lies, hype, and BS.
I know what you are saying. At one time in the past I simply opted out to a lot of these gurus’ mailing lists because there was just too much IM noise.
But I am certainly staying on your mailing list Andrew.
Cheers!
Thanks Andrew,
I’ve been feeling this way a lot lately myself.
It’s time to “Name Names” as they say in “pork barrel spending and earmarks” (current political rhetoric).
Call out the demons who just take your money and leave you high and dry.
Don’t we need a real “consumer reports” type of watchdog on the net? Crank it up mate! ; – )
Where’s the Beef?
Thank you for a great post and I agree with all your points.
The need for money in general makes people do a lot of things – sellers and buyers.
You buy one ebook and try it for 2 weeks, realise you actually needs work to make it work and then come accross another sales letter telling you “make 1000s in your sleep at a push of a button”. You drop the one demanding work half way, complain the actual system was crap and buy the new one only the cycle to repeate. This is desperation and luck of real business sense or education.
The sellers know it’s a matter of time before another person gives up on their original attempt with another system and spice up their sales letters to paint a picture of roses and hands free cash for the now deperate buyer.
The technique worked last year, works now and will continue to work in years to come. It seems that many newbies MUST come through it before understanding what’s going on. sadly, it seems as if its the way of online business.
Thanks
Hey Andrew,
Count me in on the clueless victim list.
It’s similar to reading a get rich quick book, all the how to, but none of the ‘where are you now”. You can see what they mean and it makes sense, but the gaps in the actual steps to do it are sketchy at best..
Granted some of it is our own fault for falling for the hype, but I would rather trust people (until they screw me after taking a chance) than never taking that chance to improve my lot in life.
I think that the gurus are finished, and I think they really blew it because now that things are a little tough out there, their siphoning off our walltes has practically stopped causing them to be a little strapped financially.
Welcome to our world you freakin thieves.
I came to the internet to solve problems on a larger scale than I was able to solve as a face to face personal contact gig.
I know the possibilities for that exist on the internet, and I WILL create the life I’ve always wanted through the use of technology.
But rest assured, I’ll do it by providing a true useful service that will allow me to help people solve problems, and let me sleep soundly at night
Here’s all I ended up with after a year of being over my head technically after signing on for a high priced boot camp type of deal.
http://www.whymembershipsitesrock.com
Granted, I like what I’ve been able to do (mostly on my own) and I have clarified my direction and passions for a business niche, but it has cost way too much, produced too little, and the support I recieved was a refund waiting to happen.
If anyone wants to gang up on a real structured “how to do it master plan” that cares enough to ask where are you now, what do you have to work with, and how much effort will you put in to make it happen? I’m in!
Thanks for starting thew spew we’ve all apparently been needing,
I feel a little better.
Rick Falls
bigpicturerick@yahoo.com
I give you a whole-hearted “Amen” Andrew! I am SO sick of all the BS in this business.
When you were talking about all the “gurus” out there, it occurred to me that the only qualification to be one is that you’ve made a million dollars! I wish the word would stop being used.
Just today, I was going through my email and I was unsubscribing to most of the lists I’m on. With the exception of a few non-guru marketers whom I feel are sincere in wanting to help people (other than themselves!), I’m finished with all the crap I get in my email box.
Thanks for being brave enough to say what so many of us “little guys” out here are feeling and would like to say ourselves!
Hahaha,
What’s wrong with you people! OMG! So many posts complaining that because the “guru” sold you a bill of goods that didn’t work it’s all the “guru’s” fault….say what???
Come on folks, who’s fault is it when YOU decided to leave your common sense at the keyboard? Where do you think you are living…NIrvana???
The old term ” A fool and his money are soon parted” was coined how many years before the internet “guru” was ever conceived? It’s been going on since the beginning of time itself.
Unfortunately, way too many people are just to damn greedy…hmmmm…wonder which one it is …the “guru” selling the product….OR…..the lazy, get rich quick…”I don’t wanna work”, give me blue sky and wads of cash on a silver platter for nothing OVER NIGHT newbie.
Sure, there are tons of scammers out there…everywhere!!!! Have you seen the financial crisis gripping the planet lately???? You think it was caused by a bunch of honest folks???? LOL…Bankers, Mortgage hustlers, oil companies, insurance firms, investment bankers….all a bunch of GREEDY LIES!!!! Honest people have lost BILLIONS!
It’s not an internet phenom….it permeates ALL of society. You think the internet marketing arena should be exempt???
Unlike all the honest people who have lost their life savings in the markets lately due to greedy crooks and government officials..YOU, my friend, have the power of common sense and choice…..are you using either one?
1. DO NOT buy stuff from marketers who are not well known. At least they have a guarantee policy…so USE IT! Like the post above which states something about tyring to obtain a refund on a 60 guarantee policy 90 days after the fact. SAY WHAT? It took you 90 days to figure it out???? COME ON!!!! Take a few days and check it out….if it don’t walk like a duck….GET YOUR MONEY BACK! It’s not hard! I do it all the time because I too got burnt a couple times in the beginning. It’s been years now since I’ve lost any money on any marketing product. I never buy without a guarantee and a credit card. In those rare instances that a guarantee was not honored I simply contested the charge with a copy of the guarantee and the credit card company resolved the issue immediately. You can do it.
2. Stop being lazy, stupid and greedy. There has never been anything in this life nor will there ever be… that will make you rich overnight….or in 30 days..NOTHING FOLKS……how much hype to you really need to believe? Sure, luck happens…so go play the lottery.
3.Take control of your own destiny. Most people who lose money online are depending on someone else to do the dirty work for them….plain and simple. I got into this business with a 24 month plan. I planned the work and worked the plan….it’s that simple….i now work online full time and make a great living….you can too.
OK….enough of my rant for now. I used to get sick of the hucksters like all the rest of you until it hit me that I was my OWN worst enemy….leaving common sense and responsibility at the door when making marketing decisions. I have read of thousands of people who cry and complain of losing thousands to online scumbaggers….they’ve never described the feeling of having that gun pointed at their head while grabbing their credit card….especially after having lost thousands prior to their next purchase of FAST, EASY MONEY.
So, if you just got laid off, down and out, a “desparate newb” or a single parent needing overnight cash that isn’t any excuse to be stupid…..don’t you think if overnight riches were possible that EVERYONE would be doing it?
If it doesn’t work for you GET your REFUND and move on. Take some responsibility and realize success only comes from a little determination and a willingness to succeed.
The internet can be a wonderful place to make some serious cash but it does not happen overnight and just think about this….all of you complaining about the scum bag guru’s and their rip off products….you have just uncovered your perfect niche. Find products that work, that fit the bill and truly help people succeed online and sell to THEM….there are countless thousands and building a small list of these folks will keep you fat and happy for….well…pretty much forever….If you are successful…sell your experience.
Best of luck to you all,
Barry
Hi,
Starting with Amway, back in the late seventies, I have tried to make money in more businesses than I can remember. The one thing I found out about myself is that I can’t sell because I hate to tell any body bull shit.
Your great post states much of the way I feel, also. I hate to think a good guy can’t win but than again, you’re disproving that.
Pioquinto
I thoroughly agree with all you have said Andrew. The gurus do want to make everything seem difficult and confusing for others. I get so many emails through people’s lists that i have joined to get information and then it just leads to a sales page where they try to get you to buy stuff. The prices ranging from free to hundreds of dollars. Not everyone has the money to take up offers no matter how tempting they seem – then there is the question do they really need to have that item? I know gurus are not going to give everything away for nothing but with so much conflicting information how does anyone know how many of them are genuine people they can trust. I don’t expect to become rich overnight – that doesn’t happen but it would be nice to be able to start earning some money.
While I agree with you and the other comments, a few things I hate most
1. the empty promises that “my product will show you how to do it step-by-step” and they always assume you understand what they’re talking about – they only give you the basics.
2. I hate it when the sales letter says that you’re going to learn something and then the eBook says, “but that’s beyond the scope of this book”!
3. the 100+ page double-spaced 16 point font with “way too many screen shots” ebooks that have those 2” full color header and footers – what a waste of paper and ink is expensive!!
I could go on and on…
But I wanted to thank you, Andrew for this post! It has inspired me in a “newbie” direction!!
Please stop with the emails Andrew. I now have to print out yet another gem to add to my selection of morning ¨MANTRAS¨ (my neighbors think I´m crazy) Seriously though I cannot agree with you more. Every day my in box is becoming overwhelmed with all the crap that is circulating at the moment, and at the same time I agree with Barry that we are all the makers of our own destiny and if we are stupid enough not to read between the line then we deserve to have our legs lifted !
you are obviously living in my head! I have become so disgusted with internet marketing gurus and their freakin’ daily emails trying to sell me something. “buy it now ’cause it might not be there tomorrow” it’s freakin’ insulting! try that BS on some newbie unawares. I am sick of it. you know what i do with their emails now? DELETE!
i am soooo glad you sent me this email though. i have been bitchin’ and moanin’ for a week. not knowing how to get this crap off my chest. i am sick of all of ‘em.
i have been spending the last several days rebuilding my own online store i have had for 7 years,. new christmas look, new design…everything!. and guess what? these are products that i use myself in my home and they are beautiful. been so busy chasin’ these “gurus” i have totally neglected my own stuff. well, not any more. i am focusing on my own store from here on out, F**K the gurus and all their crap. i have had something great under my nose all along and i chose to follow…you know who they are.
i will be done with my rebuilding my store in about 4 days. can i come back and make a post and leave a link to it? YOU are a breath of fresh air!!! THANK YOU!!! i have come to my freakin’ senses.
and here’s a burning question for all the gurus bragging about all the money they make. Are you using some of your sneaky money to help out the next fellow who is down and out on his luck? or are you trying to sell him something for $997 that you know freakin’ well he can’t afford? i can’t BELIEVE the money some of you are asking for. HOW DARE YOU!!! what if everybody got fed up with your crap and stopped buying from you? where would you be?
thanks Andrew for letting me VENT. i NEEDED that. you are a breath of fresh air!
ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh i feel sooooo much better. and here i thought it was just me who felt this way. Thanks again, Andrew. i just can’t thank you enough!!!!
Walk softly on the rice paper grasshpper. ; – )
G’day Andrew,
I agree 100%. The industry that I mainly work in – IT – is exactly the same. The field is littered with so much different tech that the “gurus” are a dime a dozen.
It’s better out than in, and your doctor will be happy that you don’t have that stress eating at you.
Enjoy today’s cricket..
Neil
Where can I start! Let me count the ways this industry sux:
1) Cross testimonials. AKA: “l’ll write you a testimonial with my website link if you do the same for me”
2) Gurus who ONLY make money from internet marketing (and have no actual marketing experience in the real world)
3) Gurus who have “GOD” reputations because they started marketing 10 yrs ago when it was easy. But are in fact major wankers in reality with no clue.
4) Following on from 3) the same Gurus who keep rehashing the same material because the truth is they’ve got no idea about how to generate traffic for today’s internet.
5) Gurus who’ve built extensive lists from years ago when it was a piece of cake, or from their buddies jvs, and not from actually doing any cutting edge techniques now. These same Gurus then love to market their current fluff using “you’ll learn how I’ve built my extensive list”.
6) Constant CROSS PROMOTION of the same product from 10-15 GURUS. Come on if these guys are sooo RICH and sooo CLEVER why do they need to keep promoting each other’s products to the same list of people? Me thinks it’s just a SCAM.
7) Overwritten pieces of garbage that don’t offer any specific techniques. These “guides”, “lessons”, “courses”, “ebooks” etc take forever to read, watch, listen to, that by the time you are finished you are so spaced out you don’t realize that the information was in fact useless.
I could go on and on here…. please stop me now.
Emma
Give the newbies a check list of all the tricks, all the lies, the traps, the pitfalls, the psychological levers, that will be used to take their money. And then ask them not to end up as one of the perpetrators..
I’m completely agree with you. Somehow they make it hard for us (newbies) to make money online by telling us we must follow “this” and “that”.
I would like to add one more comment here.
The Key is : Practice makes perfect. Apply what you know RIGHT NOW, stop looking around ,no matter how good the soon-to-be-launched products, please stick with your plan.
Fail to make a plan then you plan to fail.
Ok, I repeat. Stop looking around. APPLY what you know. Take Massive Action Now!
I am sick of seeing the same old recycled guru babble being pushed by people who dont even understand what they are on about.
Some of the fear of loss stuff I have seen in the last week has gotten to me.
People are buying crap out of desperation.
Ethical social marketing in my view is the only way to sustain a business.
Go firepow go.
This week alone, hyperactive with over promotions galore, I did something different. Actually both my wife and I did.
She put together a few articles and I’ve built a new web site instead of letting the invasion from “CrapVillus Maximus” take over our time and minds.
Boy does it work, or what? It truly IS magnetic
if you let it. In your favor!
And even though we are finally starting the right
way from “being small”, this truth helps
us on the way:
“It’s not the size of the dog in a fight. It’s the size of the fight in the dog that wins!”
Lou
I started this venture by going to seminars and signing up to coaching programs that made me thousands of dollars poorer.
By now I realized seminars hardly help you succeed. If you’re newbies just go to a seminar or two just to see what’s it’s like. It’s basically a sales seminar where you end up buying coaching programs run by salesmen. Only now I can see that they are not trainers but marketers. They suck at training, big time.
In the process I also get sucked into buying tons of ebooks, reports, guides whatever. For more than six months ago, I hardly looked into sales pitch and rarely buy anything anymore. Even when I buy, I ask for refund if the contents doesn’t bring me anywhere.
I have a feeling that almost everyone falls into this trap as beginners. Just don’t let it go forever.
Learning is good as long as it is put into action without long delay.
I would like to add that it’s sad, but more and more people will fatten the wallets of the BSers because more and more people are being drived by the economy, unemployment, and, the ever deepening recession.
Someone hit on a suggestion that I would like to see happen, and that is sort of an IM BS and rip off reporting bureau where data and complaints are kept for free access.
back in my mail order days, there was a guy by the name of Donald Smith that published a “good guys/ bad guys newsletter. People would inform him of bad dealing they had with a marketer, and Donald would write the marketer and inquire about the complaint. He would then publish the results in the next issue to relate how many attempts were made to resolve the matter, if the marketer resolved the matter, or if the marketer failed to respond.
We could use something like that for the IM field. there have been several started, but they either died out, or they themselves became the same as the other BSers.
What are the thoughts on this idea?
I also hate the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that is spewed in a lot of the sales pitches over the last year. When I asked one of my favorite “guru’s” about his sales letters that were making a certain economic claim – his response was that the only thing that mattered was what his bank account told him. He knew full well that what he was saying was not true, but it sold FUD … and FUD puts money is his bank account …
To me that speaks about character – about ethics – about integrity …
The real definition of ‘GURU’ is teacher. It is an ancient Sanskrit word used to refer to spiritual teachers. Such real and genuine ‘guru’ never and ever claim to be one! It is just the loyal students who refers their teachings are from such and such guru. So, a simple acid test is …. if ever someone claims to be a guru….he is definitely NOT! ditto.
As I see it, Internet Marketing is not for everyone, especially lazy ones. Internet Marketing is real hard work. I can’t imagine any shortcuts. Experience and the learning process takes time. Some longer and to some a shorter time. However, over time, one should be able to acquire wisdom. It is the ability to see stuff beyond written words.
I use a simple ‘Scam Test’. If you need a lot of money to make money, it is 99% (maybe 100%) a SCAM.
Money should be used wisely in only buying tools or ideas ( of course you study ‘em first). The use of this tool to generate the income gives you real income. Hard work goes with it. That’s why I say it is not for lazy people
Lazy people are scam lovers. They lost money in one but will join the next available scam! Scam program promises ‘no work’. When you hear scam lovers talk, they will try to out beat the other on how much they lost! Strange kind of ego, I must say!
So how and why scam strives? I guess it is because there are more ‘scam lover’ than wise Internet Marketers. The numbers never stop growing so much so it gives ‘doing biz online’ a bad name.
Let’s enjoy this tough times, ppl, as it will still be tougher ahead of us.
We are people not aiming to super millionaire, right? But just to make a consistent and substantial income the honest way.
Warm regards
Hashim
I
Agree wholeheartedly with your post, Andrew. Still the fault is not all one sided. You would be amazed at how often newbies purchase a hosting plan, set up a website and close it down at the end of the first month because quote “it wasn’t making any money”.
All too often people leap on the hyped up bandwagon because they don’t want to work for a living at all. They want to stick up a website someone else built and never have to lift a finger again to earn money.
As a conscientious business owner, I provide my customers with the best instructional ebooks I can find to help them succeed. Yet when I ask them if they read them most will say no they haven’t gotten around to it yet.
I recently came across a sales letter for a product that actually stated “If you are not going to use this, don’t buy it:”
Sound advice, yet I often wonder how many people took heed of it.
Best,
Kathy
Andrew, I could not have said it any better. I have a background in traditional marketing and instructional design and technology. I’ve been following this business for a while now and have spent more money than I care to admit buying all the tidbits of information out there. What I quickly found out was that even if the information was good (which most isn’t), there is no way you can work for a living, have a family, some semblance of a life, and actually read all the crap much less try to implement any of it!
I haven’t had much luck making money online but that is mostly my fault because I’m not investing the time needed to actually succeed. Let’s face it – this isnt a part time job – this isn’t something you can do an hour or two a day or 5 hours a week – it is a BUSINESS – and you can’t work part time at a business and make money!
But here’s my big beef: as a designer of online training for corporations, I know how information should be designed and delivered. There are actual scientific methodologies on how people learn, how to put information into segments so they can learn a little at a time, and not ask them to read these poorly-written manuals that don’t say much because the people who write them don’t know much about the subject anyway or had it written by some foreign person for $100. So here’s what I’d like to suggest – anyone with a product they want to teach, internet marketing or the person who wants to teach you how to install sprinklers, put this information into an instructional design document, plan what you are going to teach, teach it, test it, evaluate and measure your student’s success, and then take them to the next level. Now trust me you don’t need a $10,000 coach to get you started. You just need someone who knows the subject partnered with someone like me who knows how to teach it! I may regret this, but I’ll even publicize my personal email address – tshearer@shearlearn.com – maybe if people partnered to put quality products together instead of JV’ing with a million people who send you the same email will start to put some semblence of quality back into this dark age of internet and niche marketing. Or maybe I should write a book on how to write courses or better yet, maybe a piece of software that does all the needs assessments, learning objectives, learning taxonomies, and the different levels of knowledge transfer – yes you can get a MA at a university on this and these used car scammers think they are gurus.
Let’s start demanding only the best products out there and make those that don’t conform go out of business.
Hi Andrew ..this is a breath of fresh air…
The time is coming my fellow marketers to do something about the massive hold these guru types have on this industry .. New blood is whats needed and a new approach..
I have a master plan that if you join with me we can all collectively take on the gurus and make them comply to our wishes , their either do this or die (business wise) ..I’m not going to really hurt them… but the ones that play ball will be rewarded with our support and the ones that peddle shit in a box will be black listed by us all…
You will here from me soon and you all have to join forces no gurus allowed… together we will be a force to be reckoned with…
This might sound a bit radical but I am as mad as hell with gurus sucking the life’s blood out of poor newbies
I Promise all if you rally with me we will become an unstoppable force….
I know I sound like a nut… but I really do care about all this…and as I said I have come up with a plan.. not yet though but soon .. the time is not quite right yet.
The Guru Sniper…
I hate the way the way experienced marketers cheating newbies into believing that they can make money online without hard work, sincere persistent effort and a systematic strategic planning. Experienced marketers who are successful know the struggles they have been through to make money. But the sales letter requires them to say – I have struggled hard to find the secret that can make you rich instantly, you can become a millionaire overnight without the hardship I had to go through – this way of writing the sales letter to influence the buying behavior has been systematically established.
The newbie when he buys the product is going to start with the mentality that I have to just pay this guy my last 100 dollars to and tomorrow I will wake up to find my bank account filled with thousands of dollars.
I joined FirePow because it did not sell me any such dream. FirePow clearly told me the automated process that will be available to me to start making money online.
Andrew, you shared with us in the forum the case study of earning from your own FirePow blog. You showed us systematically how one can start earning online by using your system.
Similarly, there are many systems available that we can use systematically to earn online. This can happen if experienced marketers stop misguiding newbies and newbies stopped falling for silly dreams sold in sales letters.
Sorry about the bad english in the last post I am doing this in a hurry..
You get the idea though..
Thank you .
The Guru Sniper
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Internet Marketing business is too big for its shoes; too many players promoting each others products with not much differentiation apart from the graphics, packaging, and reordering of information. I have bought a substantial amount of e-books and courses over the last 2 year or so and I believe that some of the courses actually contain good information but I think the more you buy the more conflicting ideas you are presented with. Also wrt to people not actually acting on information or strategies; I think the plans suggested seems to be too complicated and expensive to follow or requires an inordinate amount of work to set up correctly especially when you’re unfamiliar with using the tools of the trade. Also, yes people are lazy and many times buy into the fantasy of almost no work and investment and following “simple” strategies to make $5000 or more a month.
Just recently I have bought 2 business books on building a “real” brick and mortar business in South Africa from a book-store and it contains really good information for about $37. I must have spent about 100 times that amount on digital information products *my bad* I guess I need to change my habits and stop reading sales letters and figure out what I really want to do and then find the information I need. “Wanting money” is the wrong niche to buy in to I am now realising.
Hakuna matata
HEY! i just received this GREAToffer to make $30,000 in 30 days from an internet guru!!! hahhahahaha -
True that Andrew. The whole Guru thing can make the whole thing seem so darn complicated it’s ridiculous. It just has the effect of turning everyone into an ‘info hunter’, never confident enough to take action. I see this all the time, talking to enetrepreneurs starting even OFFLINE businesses.
Max Soutter
Hello Andrew.You describe me and my feelings of utter confusion spot on. With your permission I would like to introduce your contributors to a resource which is amazing .Many really helpful things are completely free on this website and Randolph Smith is so in touch with newbies.I promise you I get no benefit from passing this on. With luck a lot of people, like me, will be helped at http://www.randolfsmith.com/ . Paul Benson.
@GuruSniper – I don’t want to sound overly negative, but I think any plan to bring down the gurus is doomed to failure.
Internet marketers who have become successful have learned to exploit the affiliate system. It is the affiliate system that is the problem.
Unfortunately there is really only one online business model that anyone ever talks about – the affiliate model. So everyone is convinced they can make a million dollars by selling “info products” created by more experienced marketers.
But no affiliate marketers will consider writing a critical review of any of these products because this would be counter to their own interests.
The only people who will write critical, objective reviews of products will be people who do not rely on them for an income.
What the internet marketing field needs is a small group of knowledgeable people who are NOT affiliate marketers who have found a way to make a living by evaluating products.
Some hosting review sites actually come close to this since they combine expert opinion and objective analysis of performance with unsolicited user reviews. But even these are tainted because
a) The site owners have a vested interest in selling certain hosting packages (the ones with the biggest commission), and
b) User comments and reviews can be easily manipulated by bogus users who are paid to say good things about their employer and bad things about their competitors.
I can’t see a solution in the Internet Marketing field. Internet marketers are like snake oil salesmen. Everybody has been told they can make a quick buck because people are gullible and desperate. So they are prepared to put their “ethics” on the shelf and say whatever it takes to make a sale. Very few are in it for the long term. Very few have the integrity to rise above the scramble for money. And it is just about impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
I have been buyin books and loking at seminars and trying for over one year and I have not made a penny, from all the paod for “KNOWLEDGE” and shortcuts. They butter you up with free exciting give aways only to try to get you later buyin a book.
I too am disgusted with internat marketing and I am going to SBI and build it slowly and surely
thank you
ellis
I really don’t expect you to read this.
Each response has referred to GURUs when in actual fact, these people are nothing more than figureheads who couldn’t code their way out of a paper bag. They pay for everything idea that is produced in their name and outsource more than you can imagine.
Grammar? Spelling? Who cares, the “peasants” are too stupid to know the difference. Just give ‘em pretty pictures and ClickBank statements, they’ll buy anything.
Ideas?
Look around, grab a bit from here and there and pay someone to write this incredible sales page. Don’t bother to write a decent manual or one at all. (Much cheaper) Next, get everyone onto a list and constantly bombard them with emails, so that they don’t have time to get any work done and then, because they never have time to actually work on the program, it can never be proved the program is a failure. Rinse and repeat.
It is such a pity that these people are so unethical..One can only respect people like Bill Gates, who having made millions, is returning, through his charitable foundations, back to the world.
Thanks Rick h for the comment.
Yes I know I sound like a nut an all, but I have been thinking about this for a while now and I have a solution…
The nuts and bolts are not all in place yet and I don’t want to let the cat out the bag so to speak, but I assure you all that I have the utmost “Internet integrity” and I am doing this with the utmost of good intentions.. I want to try to create a change in attitude to our business, and make it a good experience for all marketers and not pray on people who are sometimes in financial trouble and desperate to make some cash. but to help them help to themselves get a new break in life.
I don’t want to take up any more space here on Andrews Great page suffice to say.. that when you all get the call .. And if you all rally to this, then we CAN force the gurus to comply ..
Thank you all and remember the name…
and hit the web page.
The Guru Sniper…
Entirely agree about the BS, Andrew. Michael Cheney’s salesletter for The Golden Thread takes the biscuit.
As for info products, if you find them so deprived of useful content, how about creating your own!
all the best
Jonathan Paston
Personally the thing I hate is that I know how it all works so find it hard to see it from an average surfers point of view.
If you only take action on one tiny part of what you have learnt the benefits will follow
@RickH
“What the internet marketing field needs is a small group of knowledgeable people who are NOT affiliate marketers who have found a way to make a living by evaluating products.”
I think the idea of an unbiased independent IM board is a great idea in principle but the problem is selecting the members of such a board and also whether ordinary netizens will consider this board to be truly unbiased and independent. One mechanism that could be used is to create web-bots to crawl forums and review sites searching for evaluation reviews of certain products and then to combine the results with the independent evaluation of an IM board member. Then establish a range of criteria on which to rate various categories of IM products and attach the ratings table to a review report. I would personally like a ratings system that penalize a product that has too much of a buzz-compliant, hyped sales letter that also uses too much “hard sell” techniques. Also these bogus supposed value of $12000 bonus items for a $77 information product is starting to annoy me to a great degree.
I don’t want to hi-jack this comment section any further so if anybody have a good idea on how to get started with this concept suggested by RickH and others email me: raoulmarais(AT)gmailDOTcom
i really agree w ur points..
i see so many ppl going to seminars and reading and buying all kinds of ebooks, but never got time to put it to action..its sucha waste.
I know exactly what you mean Andrew. Sometimes I feel like I spend most of my available time reading the latest email (they seem to come daily) with the latest “best thing since sliced bread” IM idea – and not actually just doing the simple, consistent thing that I know from personal experience, actually WORKS.
I say, pick one strategy that you’re comfortable with, ignore all the hype around you and JUST DO IT again and again. After that, it’s just a numbers game and the income will flow.
I was thinking of a rating type of system like in tennis or even movies.
Basically any product would have to be categorized into a fit for the appropriate user.
tennis goes from a 1.0 player up to a 7.0 or professional.
That would be the kindest way for the marketers to let us know if we should part with our money.
it could be further categorizede to each of the avenues.
Granted this is all a mess right now, but if we get smart it could be a phenominal opportunity to clarify and expand the true usefullness of the internet as a tool.
actually, scam.com has it all in the bag for anyone who wants to know the latest scam.
The problem with many of these so called scam sites lik rippoffreport and complaints board is that they dont generally verify the claims of either side.
scam.com has been around for a long time and talkgold.com is riddled with scams. that guy makes money selling advertising to scam artists. i’m surprised he hasn’t been sued. he knowingly advertises scam sites where people go in and lose their money. then they want to call the authorities lol.
It’s not difficult to find scam websites.
Just look for one that is selling anything to do with Internet Marketing – including mine. LOL
I really don’t think there has been an e-Book written that has ever been of any help to anyone.
No Traffic e-Book will help you get any traffic, no Link Exchange will get you any links, no Article Site will ever get you a single sale.
IM is a black hole you pour money into.
This we have to learn to live with and accept.
Beachcomber
How true, how true…
I have spent about five hundred bucks on ‘The Absolute Last Word About How to Dominate Your Pathetic NIche’
Curiously, when you filter out all the hype and BS you come up with some :
A. Basic business plan models
B. A basic business philosophy
C. A choice of a Market
D. A choice of a product for that market
E. A plan of action with realistic goals
F. A will to plan the work and work the plan
G. Thourough research into how the IM works.
H. Buy your tools
I. JUMP IN!
Yes, Andrew there’s just SO many things I could write and think of that I also “hate” in this industry!
The MOST irksome thing I hate is when every other “Guru” tells you that “you only need MY system to succeed online and nothing else”.
The ONLY problem here,
IS that EVERYONE just keep on making that claim!
Thanks Andrew for your GREAT posts, GREAT advices!
Looking for MORE!
~rommel :0)
https://www.pansyreport.com/cashola.php
This is classic !….
I told you the gurus were rattled !
Follow me…
I also saw that one. I agree with the guy with regards to using everything in your arsenal to sell; yes these gurus know one thing at least; how to write a superb salescopy and to hype a product for all it’s worth. The fact of the matter as long as want you do is not illegal; you can do whatever you want to make more sales. Do I care if I get pitched OTO or automatic renewal monthly products or get upsell-ed a higher priced item? No, the qualification is however that all the products are as great as the sales letter make them out to be and that I am able to substantially make more money than my investment. This mostly goes for IM products; these gurus must convince me that you would be able to sell other products in other niches with same exact methods they employ with IM products. The methods I particularly refer to are the ones mentioned in the link Guru Sniper gave above. I am starting to get an idea for developing a sales copy translator page that will identify what a product really does without the emotional triggers and crap and removing all the parts about what the product is supposedly worth and so forth to assist newbies. Yes just an crazy idea, I would need a hyped-up, emotionally triggered salescopy to be able to sell it though. Catch 22!
Raoul,
Have you read ‘Don Quixote”.
I cannot but feel that if you are looking for an IM product to deliver ANYTHING that is on the sales page you are just ’tilting at windmills’.
Sales pages are simply to get your money.
No product will ever deliver.
I have a PC full of $30,000 worth of them, in a folder called JUNK.
In four years I have never bought one single product that returned me one single cent.
Welcome to the real world. LOL
I was going to buy that report mentioned in Guru Sniper’s post. heehee.
I’m an idiot. I keep buying, knowing that it’s dead money.
I have dozens of things that I don’t even bother to un-zip.
Beachcomber
It was Einstein who said something about it being an idiot who did the SAME thing over and over again and expected different result.
Copy the sales page and store it in your download folder. Make a note of the guarantee. If you don’t like the program GET A REFUND. That would hurt more than trying to outsmart these rich numbskulls. (You get to keep the program anyway!)
No need to send a letter of explanation just – “refund please” . I generally copy and paste the Guarantee to the email so they know which program to return the money for.
If hundreds ask for refunds, Clickbank and Paypal are going to get pretty upset and start making their own inquiries about these overstated programs.
Well .. Getting refunds is all very well but this will only encourage people to buy lots of programs and then look for their money back straight away every time.
This I feel would be counterproductive in the long term and eventually could lead to the melt down of this business…
What would be the point of creating a system to make money if all the products you sold came back the next day..
No ..the way to go here is not to punish all the gurus collectively but to weed out the scammers from the genuine guys that have a good product to sell, I know, My name is Guru Sniper but I am not out to ruin every so called gurus name .. only the scammers..and charlatans.
If you go to get refunds for every product that you buy, this will also punish the few genuine guys out there that have some good ideas for money making systems,
The way to go is an independent rating system run by an independent board that give the systems a fair go and then report the results in a fair manner to the rest of the their community .. In this way the so called gurus will have to get their systems spot on or the independent reports would be the kiss of death for them.
The flip side of this is that the genuine gurus will sell a lot of product. .. Not Because Of Their Self Hype …But Because Their product delivers the goods.
After years of waiting for someone to set something like this up, I myself and a few others decided to do it ourselves so…
I am in the process of setting this independent board up..and I need people to join with me.. the more people that eventually come on board the better as the more people we have on board the bigger the clout we will have with the omnipotent gurus… we can force change in this business, but we all have to pitch in….and become a force to be reckoned with. If you are interested in forcing a long awaited change in this business then pm me at the temporary site I have set up. Remember YOU can make a difference.
Click on Guru Sniper name above.
Charlatan Gurus, Beware the Sniper!
G.S.
Going down the “getting a refund every time you buy a system” road is really a step backwards,
The way forward is informed choice.
http://affiliatemarketingandmoneytalks.blogspot.com/
It would help if you re-read my email. At no time did it state “getting a refund every time you buy a system”.
Through the previous emails there are many who state that they have hard drives full of un-used programs either because they’re just re-hashed material, or they were never supplied with the manuals or information to operate the program effectively. It also applies to the incredible sales copy that is so full of hype as to almost make one believe that the purchase will supply one with one’s very own “genii lamp”
What I wrote was,
“If you don’t like the program, GET A REFUND”.
At no time would I EVER suggest purchasing a program just to get it FREE. A lot of money, time and effort goes into producing the products and not all marketers are of dubious character.
BUT a lot of hard-working people are being duped into making purchases which, in a lot of instances are way-over-their-heads and totally unsuitable to their requirements.
If the marketer doesn’t state, upfront, the knowledge requirements and the additional money required to operate the program and the program is unsuitable to the purchaser.
THEN GET A REFUND.
“What I wrote was,
“If you don’t like the program, GET A REFUND”.
Ideally, I’d reframe that to be “If a program doesn’t deliver on it’s promise, get a refund”. And to those who think that people will abuse the refund system, based on my experience of the products I promote in the home business/internet marketing/telecommuting area it simply is NOT true that people will automatically abuse the refund systems – IF you provide them with high-quality products where the product owner understands how to treat their customers.
The FIRST email people get when they sign up for my list in that field now TELLS them how to get refunds and since I started doing that there has been ZERO increase in the refund rates.
In the offline world the FIRST thing you often see when entering a major retailer is the Customer Service/Returns section. So why should it be any different online?
Admirable sentiments Mattie, but you seem to have forgotten that whole purpose of selling IM products is to dupe people into thinking the product can make them money.
If they are stupid enough to buy an IM product then they deserve to lose every penny.
This includes me.
I probably have over 20k worth of useless IM products gathering virtual dust.
However I would NEVER ask for a refund.
I was stupid to buy them in the first place.
If you believe one word in a sales page or email, or believe that the Paypal and Clickbank “statements” are genuine and not made in Photoshop or that the testimonials are not just mass produced fakes – then you qualify for the strait-jacket and padded cell.
I received an email today “Buy this $107 producyt today and make $100,000+ commissions for Christmas”.
And this was from my best friend!!!
Online COMMISSIONS come first, everything else a very poor and distant second.
To paraphrase William Randolph Hurst – “Never let the truth get in the way of a good sales page”.
“However I would NEVER ask for a refund”. . . . and that’s how so many marketers remain in business.
As I wrote earlier, “The reason that “information” has to be offered so frequently is because the “gurus” have to keep filling their coffers. ”
If you purchased an item at your local shopping mall and the “fit” was wrong, would you not take it back?
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that an intangible item purchase over the Internet is any different from a tangible purchase in the “real” world. All require the same manufacturing its just that your local merchant doesn’t introduce item one
at a time and try to dazzle you with this amazing item. Most Internet Marketers are little better than snake oil salesmen of the last century. You said it best:
“Online COMMISSIONS come first, everything else a very poor and distant second.”
BTW: William.Randoph Hurst was a most unsavoury character at the best of times!
I’ve gotten to the place where I just laugh at these guru guys. In their minds everybody is a newbie. I got an email the other day from a well known marketer that said in the subject “We Want Newbies” or something to that effect. Fantastic claims of how powerful this product is and the money you can make. somebody who doesn’t know any better will fall for it and whip out his money to buy.
OH the ones i really like is “join free!” “never spend a dime” then you get in and if you upgrade and buy you get all these powerful dime-a-dozen ebooks or whatever they happen to be selling.
And here’s a good one “this will be HUGE!” i want to vomit everytime i see that. its so old hat lol
Sadly, Barb, these people ARE making millions – I don’t know about you, but I’ve made less than $4 this year.
It’s becomernecessary to say “If you can’t beat them, join them”., and that’s just what I am going to try to do.
Deviousness, hype and ‘skinning newbies’ are the only way to an income, online, it appears.
So, the thing I have to do next is to find the “king of Thieves” and get him / her to teach me.
No. No. No please don’t fall into the if you cant beat then join them trap… then you go over to the guru dark side..
I know what you mean though….
There is a way to sort this mess out. i have been in contact with G.S.. and what he says are some good ideas, I am in myself,, soooo the rest of you get your S*%% together and join forces, I know this is all new and not shiny and familiar but I feel the thought processes are along the right track
Lets not sin against newbies let us help them and ourselves to make a living on line..Notice, I didnt hype it up to make millions per month. Lets all play nicely with the newbies now.
hey beachcomer
what i have found is selling your own products is where its at. i have a hosting service that brings in some money and my online store catalog. i’m done trying to sell other people’s stuff where when you make a sale it doesn’t show up in your back office. the only other one who has ever paid me is Clickbank.
i do also sell discount dental plans. my mom bought one yesterday for $79 per year. it gives her discounts on dental, vision prescriptions, hearing, chiropractor, and she gets an extra 3 months free. we called them to have all her plan info sent to her instead of me printing and sending. they were VERY professional and left me quite impressed. will be getting a plan for myself soon. there are oogles of plans to choose from. its all about choosing what is best for you. the one my mom got is Unicare 100 for $79/year. we also called the vision place she uses and they do accept the Unicare 100. you can see it here http://global-etrader.com/dental
Good luck in all your endeavors
Hi barb.
Funny, I’ve found that your own product garners very little or no interest.
I’ll keep this short as it’s 7.53 am and I’ve been up all night writing articles so that nobody can click on the links. LOL
If this is taken as a blatant plug, I’m sorry, but I wrote and e-Book – wrote, not PLR- about saving electricity in the home. This has been sitting on its own website for 15 months without a sale.
If you want a look, be my guest
==> http://www.energy-savings-benefits.com
funny, how when one’s own feelings of inadequacy is projected to put down the work of others. very mean. i would never have done that to you, but since you did…..
also funny that apparantly yours doesn’t garner very much interest to sit for 15 months without a sale. ebooks are a dime a dozen. (you had that coming)
FYI. this product does very well and pays affiliates very well also. so, i do quite alright with it. i didn’t need to sell my mother. she heard about it (she doesn’t have a computer. it was advertised on TV so, somebody spent a lot of money to advertise something that garners no interest) and called me to see if i knew anything about it. I told her i was an affiliate, and after finding a great plan for her she bought one and got an extra 3 months free, and I made 50%.
garners no interest you say? i beg to differ. I will be getting a plan for myself from which i will also make 50%.
Barb,
I didn’t put down your product, I have no idea what it is.
I never click on links to other people’s websites unless I have to.
I never put anybody down – I know all too well what it’s like to be put down by oneself.
I was using the term “your own product” in its general sense.
That is, everyone’s own product, including mine.
I have never tried to sell anything except Information Products and you’re the first person I’ve heard of that has.
To be honest, I didn’t know you could.
I’m sure that you do very well.
My problem is that I know nothing about SEO, Keywords or any of that advanced stuff – so I just bung it on a website and hope someone finds it. LOL
They don’t.
Sincere apologies for the imagined slight.
Clive
no, i owe YOU an apology for taking your comment the wrong way. I am so sincerely very sorry. please forgive my awful stupidity and uncaring response. I told God I would watch that and I failed
BTW my mom used it for her vision appt. and paid $38 for a $55 service and a discount on her “Sarah Palin”-look eyeglasses. she is tickled pink and i’m happy that she is happy.
but i am sad that i was mean to you. again, i am very, very sorry. the fault is all mine. hope you will forgive me.
Barb,
Actually nobody owes anybody an apology as there’s been no harm done.
Another one of my attributes is being thick skinned. LOL
I’ve always thought that all Sarah Palin did was make a spectacle of herself.
Now she can head north to terrorise the wildlife.
America has been spared another natural disaster.
Consider it forgotten, like Sarah Palin. LOL
same here. i thought about her possibly becoming president and shook in my shoes. goodbye and good riddance to 8 years of pure unbelievable BS. we’ll see what the next 4 brings. let us all hold on to whatever we hold on to and hope for the best.
“terrorise the wildlife” LOL LOL LOL!!!
I think everyone is naturally skeptical about the value behind offers out there these days.
We have all been burnt at least once
I have been talking to the team behind a project called “Turn Key Mentors”. The idea being helping people to produce sales results for their business in 30 days.
http://turn-key-mentors.com/review/TurnKeyMentors
About a year ago i lost my job, so i had this wonderful idea that i would learn how to make money on the internet. The first product i bought was Google Cash and i learned the techniques and quickly lost a couple hundred dollars. So, i found a product that was recommended by a “Guru” on the internet and was assured that this product was an good way to make money. So I purchased Google Payload and tried the techniques in the program and then out of the blue my new Adsense account was banned.
Thanks to all you “GURUS” who sell us products and don’t really care about us making money or the long term ramifications to us.
Crushed Newbie
Hi, Crushed Newbie,
Don’t be crushed.
Just look at it as Lesson #1 over and done with.
These ‘Maserati By Next Thursday’ schemes never work.
Find something ‘slow and steady’ and stick with it.
Just DON’T GIVE UP.
If I can be of any help,
admin@grumpyoldchef.com
will find me – even if I don’t want to be found.
Clive
Hi Crushed Newbie,
I thought I’d share what got me to the point of making $200-$400 per month from Zero.
It was a combination of two people. Andrew’s Internet marketing on Crack and Steve Weber’s Adsense connection.
The key things Steve talked about were the long term things and Andrew helped me pick out the nitch regarding targeting my marketing. I would not have broken thru without both of them.
One of the biggest things I found was when you decide to try your best with an internet business you’ll find most of your friends or family, even wives will stand in the way with comments that really don’t help.
Finding someone to talk to that first of all knows what you are saying is very important. The next thing is to let yourself be held accountable for accomplishig small steps. Give someone the power to ride you, to say get your butt in gear. Steve did this for me.
Don’t settle for nothing stand for somthing. That is where it starts and is is hard. If it wasn’t difficult then no-one would fail.
So Crushed Newbie, from someone that wants to help you. Get your but in gear, do somthing don’t even think about giving up.
whooo..so much to talk about. I mean trying to do this on your own is a killer. I am not a people person and this truly hurt me. Nevertheless, I will trend on with stopping.
Andrew, your product is a awesome one but with the $$ monthly cost a little too rich for my blood now. Guys over there at Wealthy Affiliate…I have to settle with for now. Great guys and good people there
I fall for the hype some times but not anymore. Its the same whole stuff over and over again just repackage. I am not an expert but have come to learn alot.
I will be here till my hair turns gray or my computer freeze up…..then I will just buy another one..ha ha ha.
Thanks andrew for this post…even though I am a little late