This has nothing to do with marketing or business but I feel, as lacking in value as these sentiments are… they need to be shared.
So I’ve moved from Australia to Canada this year and been doing lots of traveling to the U.S for the past few years so I’m no stranger to tipping.
In Australia, the tipping culture is no where near the same, such that I can count the times I’ve given tips back home on one hand.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not a stingy guy, and I’m all for the “abundance” mindset – moreover, I consider myself reasonably generous, and I think those who know me would agree 
My problem with tipping is a fundamental logical problem that for some reason, whoever invented the “tipping” process didn’t seem to realize…
Think about it.
The reasoning is that because people in the service industry get a lower than normal wage, so they have to make extra money from tips. Why that burden should be placed on the consumer when it wasn’t ME who decided what the minimum wage should be is ridiculous enough, but let’s overlook that for a moment.
Most stupidly of all is this…
So a waiter works a shift, and makes an extra bit of cash on top of their hourly rate, which they then use up in all the tips that they have to PAY when they eat out or get a taxi!
Where is the LOGIC in that?
Oh well, just wanted to have that public grump and get it out there. If you agree or disagree, I want to know why
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I have to say you are looking at tipping the wrong way. I think it is best to think of it more a salesperson working on commission. The waiters product is not the food they bring to the table but the service they provide by ensuring a pleasurable dining experience and you get to choose how much they are rewarded.
There are always going to be lousy waiters who think just because they carried the food from the kitchen to your table with out dropping it they should get a big tip and that is just wrong. When you get a good waiter take care of them when you don’t don’t be afraid to not be overly generous.
Bob,
Right, I agree. I love tipping anyone who’s really putting in an effort.
My main problem is just that really, it doesn’t do them any good because they just have to spend that extra money on all the tips they pay out to everyone else – you know what I mean? So if no one tipped anyone, it seems it would work out the same for them.
I am guessing you have never worked in a US restaurant. At best the wait staff are getting minimum wage and most states actually have laws that allow restaurants to pay substantially less than that.
Your logic is flawed because the only way tipping hurts waiters is if they spent all their time eating at other restaurants. The reality is most waiters don’t eat out a lot partly because they are working at meal times.
The problem I have with tipping is when people that don’t really do anything of any real value and have their hand out expecting a tip like they just did you a huge favor. I live in Las Vegas and this phenomenon is pretty rampant.
Bob,
Indeed – but it’s not just eating out – it’s getting a taxi, getting a haircut, and more. But I’m sure you’re right that they wouldn’t spend as much eating out as their diners and so I suppose they do benefit.
And you’re right about the “expectation mentality” too, very annoying.
The minimum wage issue I find repugnant also. Like someone in the government said, you know what, let’s cut down these wages so that more business owners want to start restaurants in our state and don’t worry about it, we’ll let the customers make up for it. Let the consumers pay their wages so we don’t have to…
Andrew
T.I.P. is an abreviation of “To Insure Promtness” and has been around since the 15 century . It was a payment given when you ordered! Now that makes sense (well if you agree with bribery!)
My philosophy is that if the service is what I would expect, then I don’t tip.
If the service is exceptional, then I give that person all the money that I could have given to the people who just did what I expected AND write to the company’s head office telling them of the great service I have had!
As you can guess this only happens every couple of months, but I know that I have been instramental in at least 2 people’s promotions.
Paul
Andrew,
I have lived in the US my whole life, so I guess that I am used to the concept. What I can’t get used to is what it has become. People expect a tip, no matter what type of service that you get. To me, if you want it, you need to show me that you want to earn it!
The problem remains that their salary is low. They are not responsible for that, however they know about the system when they take the job, so they should understand the concept that better service gets better tips.
Bob
I used to work at jobs where much of my income was provided from tips. I knew that (in most cases anyway) if I did a really good job – i.e. went above and beyond what the minimum expectations were – I would do all right. It’s not a bad attitude to learn in general, and has pretty much become a habit for me in my life. “Always provide more than expected.”
I have to say that most of your examples are pretty much off the mark. When I worked as a bellhop or waiter, I did not spend all of my tip income (except, perhaps, on an occasional beer night
. I did not take taxis, but walked or rode my bike instead. I did not eat at “sit-down” restaurants, but went to fast food joints or ate at home. When I worked in a restaurant I generally got at least one meal each day from the kitchen. So, it was not a system of “tips in, tips out” like you suggest. At that point in time I simply could not afford to spend my tip income.
Now that I earn substantially more than I did then I tip very well. I figure it’s payback time. Then I was benefiting from the generosity of people who were better off than I. Now I pass it forward to others. It’s actually a pretty good system as I see it – I am never forced to pay someone, I reward those who perform, and “big brother” doesn’t get his grubby little paws into the transaction. (There are some stupid tax laws involved here, but that an entirely different subject).
MAN are you right! It might as well have been me writing this blog post because it’s exactly what I was saying to Claudia just the other day!
It’s not my fault that person’s boss doesn’t pay them enough. I’m just there for the service!
Wages plus tips equals total income.
Likewise, your income is derived from multiple sources that combine to form a total.
You tip from your total income just as those who receive tips as income. If someone makes quite a bit from tips they’ll probably tip more themselves, but I doubt you’ll find many people who earmark their tip income specifically for the giving of tips.
Now you are dead on regarding base wages for jobs – especially those where tips are commonly received. In these jobs the employers are allowed to pay far below the national minimum wage because it’s assumed the employees will get tips. This is totally bogus. Waiters, drivers, etc. should be paid a fair wage based on the work they do with tips being a nice perk received for above average service after the fact or in advance when a special request is made.
If service workers were paid a proper wage then they would stop expecting tips as an entitlement and we could start tipping out of true gratitude instead of guilt.
I agree with Andrew. I feel by my tipping, I’m sending a message to all restaurant owners, that I agree to help with the costs of running their business.
All waiters should look for another job, and at the same time they will be sending a message for better pay… at least minimum.
Expecting tips has become so insane in the US, that I see tip buckets all of the time, hanging outside the drive-thru windows. (what the hell do they have to do for me, except hand me my food… which is their job)…
Which leads me to say that all service industries hire people to do their jobs. Bring my menu, set the table, take my order, bring my food, fill my water/coffee, and be polite while you’re at it.
That’s what they are hired to do. Should I tip them because they are doing their job?
The same with hair salons. What, I should tip them because they didn’t ruin my hair?
The elevator person. Should I tip him/her because they performed the job they were hired to do… push the button for me?
The cab driver. Should I tip because he drove me to my destination, which I already paid for?
I could go on and on. Funny thing is though, I do tip…LOL, but only at restaurants. I would rather give money to bums on the street than to pay for someone doing their job, when I don’t even own the company.
At least the bums come right out and admit they are bumming money… exactly what the tip askers are doing themselves.
All just my opinion!
Chris,
Damn I couldn’t have said it better than this:
“If service workers were paid a proper wage then they would stop expecting tips as an entitlement and we could start tipping out of true gratitude instead of guilt.”
And Kerri… EXACTLY!!!!
Sorry, I can’t help myself.
Service workers who work for tips have been around for a long, long time. Originally, these workers did not receive a base wage at all, but were rewarded based on performance. If you were good, you could make some pretty darn good money. If you weren’t – well, maybe you should find some kind of factory job instead.
Then, some well-meaning liberal decided that service workers *should* be guaranteed a base wage of some sort. They figured it wasn’t fair for some to succeed and some to fail based solely on performance, even if there was good reason for it.
Suddenly forcing those businesses to pay service workers hit those the bottom line hard, and compromises had to be made – like a lower minimum wage for service businesses.
When I was a boy I had a lawn mowing “business”. I would offer to mow neighbor’s lawns for $5 (or whatever). If I just mowed the lawn, I would just get the $5. However, I knew that if I went above and beyond, and perhaps pulled some extra weeds or trimmed some extra branches that were in the way, I would get an extra dollar or two. I followed the “true” service job mentality.
The whole idea of working a “tip oriented” service job nowadays is to have a genuine opportunity to earn *more* than just a bare minimum wage. When I worked as a bellhop and a waiter I knew full well I was getting less than minimum wage. But, I also knew that because of the industry, if I really hustled and worked harder than the guy next to me, I could make some very good money (for an unskilled worker). I knew really good waiters who could have done just fine *without* taking any kind of base wage at all.
Service workers who believe tips are an “entitlement” should be, and are usually, weeded out (unless there’s a union involved – but that’s a different topic). Modifying the base wage will not change entitlement attitudes and would likely make the situation worse by allowing poor performers to remain at their jobs when they are better suited to something else.
Tipping, regardless of how you look at it, is still completely voluntary on your part. You can tip or not tip – most *real* service professionals treat getting stiffed as part of their “cost of doing business”.
I’m really surprised that on an entrepreneurial blog like this, that these attitudes persist regarding one of the few businesses left where someone can actually get rewarded based on performance.
My wife and I normally tip if the service is good, but most of the time we just do it to get rid of any loose change we couldn’t be bothered carrying around. 20c coins, etc.
Although, I found the US, or New York in particular to be a bit of a nightmare when it came to tipping. Upon arriving there a couple of years back we caught a cab from the airport to where we were staying. We gave the driver $3, simply because that’s all the change we had. But he wasn’t happy with that and literally yelled at us and went ballistic! It was a bit of a scary experience. Cab drivers here in Australia would never do anything like that. Although they’ll charge you extra anyway for the pickup fee and the rest.
I had to jump into this conversation because I hate the tipping system. It used to be you tipped if you got good service. That got taken advantage of by bosses not paying their workers what they were worth. Maybe if they paid more, prices would rise to cover it but at least then tips would mean what they were meant to mean, a reward for an exceptional job.
I’ll repeat my history lesson. Originally, people who worked for tips worked ONLY for tips. Or they worked for tips plus room and board. They did not get paid otherwise. Businesses did NOT take advantage – businesses were taken advantage of by suddenly having to pay the employee a wage. Which lead to the retention of piss-poor workers. Most restaurant owners can barely afford to pay the workers a “discounted” minimum wage, let alone “pay them what they are worth”.
Again, I’m dumbfounded that there have been so many anti-free-enterprise comments to this post.
I’m not sure the comments are “anti free enterprise” as much as “anti-something-for-nothing-mentality”…
Andrew
Fair enough Wally but the tipping system goes far beyond restaurants. For example, if you get your hair cut, there is a posted price but you had better have more than that because tips are expected. I ran a greenhouse business for almost 20 years. Paying salaries was a cost of doing business. I don’t see why running a restaurant should be any different.
Gandree, I get haircuts at my local Great Clips. When I walk in and get the right haircutter, and that individual does a great job, I tip. I figure the $12 haircut price is pretty cheap compared to a fancier, appointment only salon where I’d be lucky to escape for less than $30. So, a $3-5 tip is cheap in comparison.
A few months ago I went to Great Clips and got a lady who did not do a great job (she seemed kinda lazy). Instead of bitching and complaining, I just didn’t tip her. Apparently others followed the trend, because I noticed she hasn’t been around lately. Darwinism at work.
Tipping is *never* required (unless the gratuity is automatically added into a bill – a common practice for large banquets). But, if people allow themselves to feel pressured to tip regardless, or feel guilty because they have not tipped, this trend of “tipping animosity” will obviously continue.
Of course, another factor I have to mention. I live in Southern Idaho. Around here people do not have as much of a entitlement attitude as other areas of the country. I’ve never been verbally assaulted around here for not tipping.
You are right – tipping is completely stupid. The tip is often seen as mandatory, in other words it is just a racket the proprietor can use for making out the meal is cheaper than it actually is. I am not mean, but I want the restaurant to be honest, and say what the price of their meal is. The tip should then be optional to reward very good service. Recently I went into a restaurant in New York where the aggressive waitresses told me I needed to pay a tip and even told me what percentage I should pay – completely stupid. I presume they thought that I did not tip big enough since they increased my VISA payment above what I had signed for. I did not bother to chase this but I assume they were breaking the law and that I could have reclaimed the excess charge. So, what is the conclusion? It is that automatically expecting a tip is stupid.
Tipping is stupid because it wasn’t meant for our current culture. It was really developed for service people who were at least one class below the people they were servicing. Basically it was meant for high-rollers partly to be generous to the lower classes, and party so they could just look more wealthy.
The Japanese have it right: they are insulted when you try to tip them. It says they are beneath you and/or they don’t take enough pride in their work to do it well without an added incentive.
Couldn’t agree more sir. Thanks for your thoughts!
Andrew